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Vous avez tous probablement entendu parler de Nathalie Morin et de son prédicament en Arabie Saoudite, découvrant tous les charmes de ce pays où les hommes sont hommes, et les femmes, du bétail. Le cas d’une jeune québécoise innocente qui s’est amourrachée d’un méchant saoudien et qui, après l’avoir suivi dans son pays, se rend compte que la vie des femmes au Royaume fondateur de l’Islam n’est pas tout à fait rose. Pourtant, ce n’est pas parce que c’est un grand secret.
Les faits saillants: (tels que récoltés sur divers sites d’information)
- Nathalie Morin a rencontré Said Al Bishi en 2001. Elle avait 17 ans et lui 31. Elle tombe enceinte de lui quelques mois plus tard.
- Said Al Bishi est déporté en Arabie Saoudite en 2002. Sa demande de réfugié a été refusée parce qu’il ne se qualifie pas comme réfugié politique et qu’il fait face à des accusations criminelles au Canada pour possession d’armes illégale et voies de fait. (Petit indice là…)
- Nathalie Morin le visite en Arabie Saoudite à deux reprises et tombe enceinte à nouveau.
- Elle décide de s’installer avec lui en Arabie Saoudite en 2005.
- En 2006, Said Al Bishi permet à sa femme d’aller visiter sa famille, mais garde leurs deux fils avec lui pour s’assurer qu’elle reviendrait sans doute.
- Maintenant, Nathalie Morin fait état que son mari ne lui permet plus de sortir et qu’il la bat. Elle est enceinte de 4 mois. Ils vivent apparamment dans un taudis avec à peine de quoi manger. Sa famille fait des pressions auprès du Ministère des Affaires Extérieures pour la rapatrier avec ses enfants.
Soit-dit en passant, en Arabie Saoudite, tout ça est parfaitement légal. Puisqu’une femme est légalement à la charge de son époux, il a le droit de la garder à la maison et de la battre s’il le juge nécessaire. Une femme ne peut pas se déplacer dans les rues sans être accompagnée d’un homme de sa famille (mari, père, frère, oncle, etc.), sinon elle risque de se faire arrêter par la moutawa, la police religieuse. Ce qu’elle déplore, et la raison qu’elle veut revenir ici est la vie normale de toute femme saoudienne.
La question qui brûle encore mon esprit est comment quelqu’un supposément adulte, peut-il être à ce point innocent de nos jours? Mais, elle l’aiiiime! C’est sûrement la réponse. Maintenant, ce serait aux contribuables de payer pour son erreur. J’avoue que je suis déchiré un peu par celle-là. Mon côté libertarien me dit qu’elle doit être responsable de ses actes, et beaucoup de blogueurs abondent dans ce sens. Mon côté humaniste me dit qu’on devrait tout faire pour l’aider, simplement parce que personne ne mérite ça, même si c’était effroyablement stupide de sa part. Je crois par contre qu’une fois rentrée au pays, elle devrait trouver une façon de repayer sa dette.
Espérons aussi que d’autres en tireront une leçon également.
Assez bon descriptif de la situation. Qui plus est cette femme s'est convertie à l'islam, ses enfants sont évidemment musulmans (les enfants d'un père musulmans sont toujours musulman). Malgré tout ce que nous savons de cette religion, les mises en gardes quant à la sitation de la femme dans ces pays, Nahtalie Morin a pris ses décisions, qu'elle en assume les conséquences.
Toutefois, il est bon de noter que cette "culture" s'exporte à présent: tous les pays occidentaux vont devoir faire face à cette religion "de paix et de tolérance".
@Rainbird: Bienvenue sur mon blogue.
Je ne suis pas complètement en désaccord avec vous. Lorsqu'on est supposément majeur et vacciné, on doit faire face aux conséquences de ses décisions, aussi stupides soient-elles. Elle a pris sa décision en pleine connaissance de cause: Elle avait visité son mari en Arabie Saoudite deux fois avant d'aller s'y établir. J'ai peine à croire qu'elle n'a pas vu comment les saoudiens traitent leurs femmes lors de ces visites. Peut-être croyait-elle son mari différent? Très naïf de sa part vu les démêlés judiciaires de celui-ci au Canada.
Malgré tout, elle fait pitié. Malheureusement, sa famille s'y prend de la mauvaise façon pour libérer leur fille et ses fils. Le pressions diplomatiques ne donneront pas à grand chose, puisque techniquement, ce cher Said ne fait rien d'illégal ou d'exceptionnel selon les mœurs de son pays. Par contre, peut-être est-il possible de le convaincre d'accepter un divorce. En faisant une levée de fonds, ils seraient peut-être capable de ramasser suffisamment d'argent pour obtenir l'aide d'un Imam comme médiateur, un certain dédommagement pour le mari et de quoi acheter les billets d'avions et autres dépenses. Ça aurait de meilleurs chances de réussite que la voie diplomatique, sana coûter un sous au contribuable. Mais ici au Québec, on est tellement habitués d'avoir le gouvernemaman pour résoudre tous nos problèmes…
C’est peut-être le résultat d’une société infantilisante comme celle du Québec mais je pencherais plutôt pour une imbécile. Personnellement je la laisserais se débrouiller car je suis convaincu qu’aussitot revenue elle va s’empresser de faire d’autres folies. S,il y a des frais, que sa famille paye . Il ne faudrait pas non plus croire que si on la récupère on récupérera les enfants. Dans la vie, il y a des causes comme ça qui sont perdues d’avance.
Salut Philippe
Je pense exactement comme toi. J'en ai parler justement sur mon blogue, mon côté humaniste ayant pris le dessus sur mon côté libertarien. Sur mon blogue, je propose qu'elle donne une série de conférences sur le sujet des femmes musulmanes et combien sont chanceuses les québecoises de naitre dans un pays démocratique, ainsi qu'un cours de croissance personnelle pour qu'elle puisse s'affirmer
Quelques petites conclusions à tirer de tout cela.
Premièrement, quand une femme est en amour, elle vous suit jusqu’au bout du monde. Et dans ce cas-ci , on a affaire à quelqu’un qui est l’artisane de son propre malheur.
Deuxièmement, l’Arabie Saoudite est une poudrière de terroristes potentiels que nous avons vu avec le 11 septembre dernier alors que 11 sur 15 venaient de là (et Bin Laden vient d’Arabie Saoudite également).
Troisièmement, si tu es juif, il t’est impossible d’entrer en Arabie Saoudite (oui, oui comme dans les années 30 en Allemagne, même affaire)
Finalement, sachant tout cela, je trouve bizarre de voir une de tes annonces Google nous invitant à visiter l’Arabie Saoudite.
Sans rancune,
Tym Machine
@Ivellios: Salut,
J'ai lu ton billet. Personnellement, je ne m'attend pas vraiment à ce que Nathalie Morin soit reconnaissante à ce point. Sa famille devrait essayer une campagne de levée de fonds plutôt qu'une pétition. Si les gens veulent aider, qu'ils y contribuent volontairement, mais pas avec les taxes qui nous sont soutirées involontairement par le gouvernmenent.
@Tym Machine:
Un des effets pervers de Google Ads: Ça affiche les annonces selon des mots-clés. On peu bloquer certaines annonces, mais je n’ai pas le temps de bloquer toutes les annonces ayant rapport à l’Arabie Saoudite.
Une chaine arabe a visiter nathalie .
Natahie dis qu’elle va tres bien et qu’elle est heureuse avec sa famille .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oytYHFfXN-g
@ADEL: Shocran mon ami. Merci pour la vidéo. Dommage qu'elle ne soit pas sous-titrée. J'aurais voulu pouvoir comprendre exactement ce que ça dit. Chose certaine, ils n'ont pas l'air si mal en point que les reportages ici le laissent croire. Ça jette un doute à savoir si c'est bien Nathalie Morin qui veut se faire secourir, ou si c'est sa famille qui tente de la sauver malgré elle.
Je suis plutôt humaniste et je pense qu'une campagne de financement pour qu'elle puisse se divorcer constitue une idée brillante. Encore faut-il qu'elle veuille vraiment partir de là. Peut-être faisait-elle semblant de bien aller. Sa famille par contre doit vraiment souhaiter tout faire pour la faire sortir de là.
@Leonard Langlois:
J'avoue que la vidéo jette un petit doute sur la volonté de Nathalie Morin de quitter son mari. Cependant, il faut aussi garder à l'esprit que si nous avons affaire à un manipulateur violent, il est très possible que cette entrevue ait été faite sous la menace. Il faudrait d'autres infos plus concrètes.
Je suis le frère de Nathalie Morin. Il ne faut pas se fier au vidéo sur Youtube, elle a fait l'entrevue devant son mari, elle n'était donc pas libre de dire ce qu'elle voulait. Mais je vous assure qu'elle veut revenir. Elle est très malheureuse là-bas. Elle a même dit qu'elle est en train de mourir.
Il y a une pétition onligne qui circule si vous voulez la signer : http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/help-nathalie-mo…
Merci de votre soutien!
@Dominique Morin:
Merci beaucoup de ta visite. La vidéo jette un certain doute sur la position de ta soeur, mais comme je l'ai souligné, il est très possible qu'elle sois faite sous la coercition de son mari. Je vous souhaite bonne chance, mais je vous recommande aussi de miser sur autre chose que l'intervention de gouvernement. (voir ma suggestion plus haut)
Can you please tell me what Islam exactly has to do with this? FYI I just did a post on my Blog about Nathalie Morin and pointed out your false stereotypes. I know many Canadian or American women married to Saudis and they are not treated like « cattle ». I am a Canadian with French ancestry married to a Gulf Arab and he is not anything near what you describe. I suggest you go out into the world instead of sitting in Montreal and open you eyes — or else your gonna end up looking like a geek.
@Aalia:
Thank you for commenting on my blog. I'll reply to your denials with a short film written by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who is muslim and denounces its treatment of women. Sadly, it's you who needs to wake up as Islam requires you to give up your will and your mind.
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Philippe,
Get your facts straight, Ayan Irsi Ali is not muslim, she is a self-proclaimed atheist! And the video that you've posted is full of lies! Ayan Hirsi Ali has been caught lying numerous times, and she has said that she was lying because she needed to get her papers from Netherlands. You will never be able to insult Islam or trash Islam because Islam is perfect. I am a muslim woman, I am free because Islam liberated me 1400 years ago! But that of course, you will never understand. For once, know that there is a difference between culture and religion, between Islam and muslims. If you want to judge Islam, read the Quran, ask a muslim, don't go on youtube and try to find videos published by self-proclaimed atheists! I hope that one day you will find the truth! I hope that Allah guide you as He has guided many before you. Peace
@Hijabee:
Oh I know all about Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I read her book, which is probably more than you did. I know she became an apostate and I also know why. The fact that she lied to get refugee status in Holland is well known and doesn't discredit her at all. Saying so is just an ad hominem fallacy: attempting to discredit the mesage by discrediting the messenger. Ayaan Hirsi Ali was born and raised a devout muslim who even followed members of the muslim brotherhood, yet she turned against it all, that in itself should tell you something. But if you don't like her, maybe Irshad Manji might be able to convince you. She's still a devout muslim, yet she too criticises Islam. Her book is being read by a lot of muslims. I read it as well.
I don't need to "get my facts straight". I am not blinded by an irrationnal faith that prohibits thinking and restrains freedom and requires you to become a slave to your God. I'm a slave to noone or no God. As this is a country that honors free speech as one of it's highest values, I will continue to speak out against it whenever I wish, as it's my right to do so. We are not in Saudi Arabia here.
Phillip,
I am just sorry that you think Islam is" an irrationnal faith that prohibits thinking and restrains freedom and requires you to become a slave to your God. I’m a slave to noone or no God."
If anything, Islam encourages every and each of its followers to think and seek knowledge,reason why Science started in the Muslim world and western civilization owes its blossom to the Muslim World. Again, get your facts straight and do some research 
One other thing Philippe, whether you recognize it or not you are the slave of God, you were born the slave of God, and you will die the slave of God 
coz He chose when you were born, and He will choose when you will die. If you're not the slave of God Philippe, prove it by choosing the day you will die 
Prove it by asking to your stomach to turn left or to your eyes to go in the back of your head! Please do and see if they will obey you 
See, you can't coz every bone and every organ in your body Phillipe submits to God, and that is why you Phillipe are the slave of God and you will die the slave of God 
@Hijabee:
You're funny, I'll grant you that! And how many scientific breakthroughs or technological advancements came from the muslim world in oh, say the last thousand years? How many illnesses have your doctors helped cure without our help? I'm willing to concede that the muslim world did have an enlightened period, but it ended a long time ago and was left behind. Your ijtihad ended long ago, which is why Irshad Manji wants to bring it back.
You choose to believe the world is ruled by some unknowable mystic being whose appearance is beyond man's understanding. In order to have such beliefs (and this applies to any religion, not just Islam, btw), you must give up your mind because there is nothing rational in believing in the unknowable and the unreal. Reality deals in what exists. What is not understandable (as opposed to "not yet understood") by man's mind cannot be real. God's existence can only be taken on faith, not on any rational basis.
You live in a world where man is bound to repent eternally for his original sin. What was that sin? To have eaten the forbidden fruit that gave him knowledge of right and wrong. In other words, for having learned to think for himself. For that, he was cast out of paradise. To reclaim his place in paradise God commands him to make up for this original sin in self-sacrifice. To you, life on this earth is only a passage and an ongoing test to prove your worthiness to a reward that is not of this world, isn't it? And it all has to be accepted on faith alone, as the existence of paradise can't be proven. What if you're wrong? What if it doesn't exist?
Just the way you pray, prostrate before God, shows that your relationship with him is that of a slave. You say I'm also a slave because I didn't choose the day of my birth. That's right, my parents did. And who is to say if I will not get to choose the day of my death? Perhaps I will, but not today. You say my bones and my organs submit to God, I say they react the way evolution has engineered it in order to let each of us survive. And my bones and muscles go where I will and nowhere else. As he has no control over my body, neither will I submit my will and my mind to Him. I will not bend my back to him the way you do. To me any faith that has to be enforced by violence ( as prescribed by the Shariah ), is worth only my contempt. Any God who rules that way is no God at all.
If you were trying to convert me, good luck!
Philippe, Oh Philippe
I can't beleive I'm actually enjoying this 
Let's get something straight, first I'm not trying to convert you because I just can't . Noone can convert you to anything! God chooses to guide whomsoever He wants, He also leaves astray whomsoever He wants.
Now, again get your facts straight! Muslims do not beleive in 'the original sin', how can you talk about a religion if you don't even know what we beleive in? We do not beleive in original sin, we do not beleive in repenting because Adam ate an apple. Com'on I think you've got us confused
Christians are the one who beleive in the original sin, not us my friend. We beleive that each and every person is responsible for their own actions hence we couldn't be responsible for Adam eating an apple centuries ago. Get it? What we beleive is every creature will be rewarded for every atom of good or bad that they do! We beleive that there is one God who is one and only. And, no your parents did not choose your date of birth, God did, because guess what even doctors can't predict exactly when a baby will be born! And no you can't choose the day you will die, that day was chosen centuries before your birth! You can kill yourself, that doesn't mean you chose the day of your death, that would've meant that you followed the destiny that was written for you! And Islam is not a faith that has to be enforced by violence, I'm sorry, Islam is peaceful and if one follows Islam they can never be violent. The Quran says it loud and clear: " There is no compulsion in religion", " Killing is forbiden, killing one person is equivalent to killing the whole of humanity, while saving one person is equivalent to saving the whole humanity. That doesn't mean that there aren't violent muslims, no , of course there are violent muslims just like there are violent christians, violent atheists, whatever, violent human beings period , regardless of whatever faith they are following. Now, what does it have to do with Islam? I will say it again, You can't judge Islam by the muslims, muslims do not represent Islam, muslims are human beings with the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful. You want to tell me about Islam, go and read the Quran, read it ,understand it you might be surprised!
@Hijabee:
Ok, I’ll concede that the Quran doesn’t speak of an original sin. Adam and Eve being cast out of paradise only covers 3 verses. I’d call it a very abridged version of the Book of Genesis.
I guess that’s why they behead apostates in muslim countries… If that is not imposing by force, I don’t know what is… And I’m not even mentionning adulterers or homosexuals.
Do muslims not follow their scriptures? If they don’t represent Islam, who does?
Philippe,
No, not all muslims follow their scruptures. Just because someone says they're muslims doesn't mean they follow Islam! Just like all christians do not follow the teachings of Christianity! Also what do you call a muslim country? There are countries with a majority of muslims, ruled by a muslim but they are not ruled at all following Islamic teachings! Don't confuse a government with a religion, don't confuse culture with religion. Please, Islam doesn't condone the killings of Innocents. If some people do it and call themselves muslims, what do you want us the rest of the muslims to do? There are more than a billion muslims on earth, if our religion condoned these things, wouldn't you see a billion crazy people going around and killing people? Why does no one say the Christian Hitler was the one killing the poor Jews ? Please, for a minute, open your mind and forget the trash what the media is feeding you because obviously they will always give you images of muslims killing people! They will never show you what the rest of the billion of us beleive, they will never show you how we live peacefully! Why do you want us to be accountable for what some of us do? What does it have to do with us? with Islam? Do you know what teh non-muslim Bernard Shaw said after studying Islam? He said: 'Islam is the perfect religion with the worst followers'! So Phillipe next time you see a Muslim doing something wrong, don't say Islam is wrong, don't blame the religion, blame the person! Because guess what? The religion did not teach him that, he chose to do wrong! Like I said, if you really want to know about Islam, study the religion, not its followers!
@Hijabee:
This is going way beyond the scope of the original discussion, but you've been a good sport…
A few Quran verses for your consideration:
An-Nisa' verses 34, 89, 91
An-Nur verse 2
At-Tawbah verse 5
According to Irshad Manji, the problem is rather that too many muslims follow their scriptures too blindly. Without critical thought.
How's that for a definition: A country that rules with Shariah law.
And in those countries, religion is the state and vice-versa. There is no real separation between the two.
Here's a twist, because from what I hear, Hitler is much more popular in the arab world than in western democraties. Aside a few fringe lunatics, noone condoned Hitler's actions here. A great many of my coutrymen died to defeat him, while the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was raising muslim battalions on Hitler's side. Indeed, «Mein Kampf» is one of very few western books that were translated to arabic.
Seeing muslims dancing in the street on 9/11 is not exactly going to endear the average joe to Islam, is it? Unfortunatly, the other side is that we don't hear an awful lot of muslims condeming them, aside for people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, or Irshad Manji, or Wafa Sultan or Ibn Warraq, who usually have to walk around with bodyguards because of it. You have to realise that if you let the bad elements get more exposure than the better ones, it's going to affect how Islam is perceived.
Philippe,
There 6236 verses in the Quran and you cited the ones that non-muslims use out of context and without understanding in an attempt to mislead poeple about thinking that Islam is unfair or violent
To understand those verses, first you would have to read the whole surah, then know about the history of the surah i-e when was it revealed and why was it revealed. Then, maybe you would understand what those verses are. I could write pages and pages just on those verses, but I won't ! Like I said read the whole Quran with an explanation of each verse, then maybe you will understand those verses ( I can send you a free copy of the Quran btw if you are interested!). Let me cite some verses of the Bible just to proove my point:
Quote
Genesis"He who sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed." If this commandment is obeyed, then the four billion people who do not believe in the biblical god must be killed. 22/2
"Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death." Is it really necessary to kill such people? Couldn't we just send them to counseling or something? 22:19
The media is continuously broadcasting and printing information against Islam. They either provide misinformation about Islam, misquote Islam or project a point out of proportion, if any.
Exodus
A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed. 21:15,17
If you can't redeem him, then just "break his neck." Hey, it's all for the glory of God. 34:20
Whoever works, or even kindles a fire, on the Sabbath "shall be put to death." 35:2-3
End of Quotation
Pretty violent stuff, isn't it? See, anything can be taken out of context! Studies show that there are more than 800 violent verses in the BIble. Does it mean that Chrisitians are violent? They want to go around and kill children? I do not have the right to take these verses out of context and infer such a thing, and I would expect anyone who uses his/her intellect to do the same! Read the entire thing, then understand it, ask questions, then conclude! Timothy McVeigh commited a horroific terrorist act in 1995, by blowing up a federal building in Oklahoma City, but this act was associated only with him. Why then do the media fail to use the same judgment when a suspect is a Muslim? Does that suspect represent all Muslims on the planet? In Palestine on Feb. 25, 1994, a New York physician, Dr Baruch Goldstein, who belonged to a religious extremist group, opened fire on people praying at a Hebron mosque. He massacred 29 and injured many before he was killed. The crime was associated only with him and not the entire group to which he belonged. If he was a Muslim, the case would have been different. Is this fair judgment from the media or a double standard? Any ideology, any religion can be used to justify people's actions. You can use any beleif system to do evil. As far as people chanting on the streets to celebrate 9/11, first the media did not show the other thousands of muslims who marched against 9/11 now did they? They did not show the Muslims head of states speaking against terrorist acts, did they? Now, for those who celebrated it, they see America as an extension of Israel and whether this view is based in fact or not doesn't matter. If I forced you out of your home, took away your job, killed your family and forced you to live in filthy camps with no water or food you would feel some aggresion towards me I'm sure. See, that's how you breed terrorists, that's how you breed hate. You think the people blowing themselves up actually enjoy it? You think Hamas would exist if everything was fine in Palestine? You think mothers seeing their children dying is something they strive for? How about people who have seen all their family wiped out just because they had a muslim name or were muslims ? Those are the people who survived terror in those muslim countries, they know how it feels like. Do they get any media time? No they don't , every day muslims die all over the world, noone talks about it, because guess what? Muslim blood is cheap these days! You're saying that the rest of us who are 'good' are not getting good exposure. Well guess what? We do not control the media
We do not own radios, tv channels, newspapers! If they only choose to show what they want, what can we do? We can't force the media , all we can do is hope that people have an intellect that they can use and do their own research instead of following mainstream media! Please, beg to be different!.
@Hijabee:
Some of the verses I cited have also been used to justify wife beatings, murders and terror attacks.
Yes, there have been some terrorist acts performed by non-muslim, but as this list, the number of terror attacks by muslims is staggering.
If that was not enough, any criticism of Islam, is being met with demonstrations of fanatics, murders, if not outright riots; as those in France and Denmark. This is not just media hype.
For making the film Submission with Ayaan Hirsi Ali, filmmaker Theo Van Gogh was brutally murderer in the middle of Amsterdam. Others have to surround themselves with bodyguards. Do you see any critics of christianism or judaism having to do that?
L’islam est une grande secte. Ayant été fondée sur des principes militaires et d’hostilité, nous ne devons pas être surpris aujourd’hui des représailles au sein de nos nations chrétiennes. Lors de la création de la secte, c’était quoi leur but ultime : la domination totale des ‘infidèles’. Or, aujourd’hui, avec les moyens de transport et les communications, leur portée est à la fois internationale et je dirais même facile.
Je voyage beaucoup à des fins professionnelles : j’ai été souvent en Asie du Sud-Est, Océanie et Europe, mais s’il y a bien un coin du monde où jamais j’irai faire de la business, c’est bien en Afrique du Nord et en Arabie.
«Reconnais le moment favorable.»
Pittacos de Mytilène
@Fraddé:
Entièrement d'accord. Il est surprenant que des jeunes filles comme Nathalie Morin se font encore prendre dans ces situation. Dommage qu'elle n'ait pas vue ce film, ou qu'elle n'en ait pas tiré de leçon.
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Philippe, Thanks for the link on muslim terrorist acts
This website will give you a list of Christian terrorist acts as wellhttp://www.commonplacebook.com/current_events/pol…
As I said before, any ideology or religion can be used to do evil or justify someone's actions! Now the list of Muslim terrorists that you gave me does list the countries where those attacks occured. Again, same countries that we see every day on the news with instability, oppression, terror! What you failed to notice is these people were not born terrorists but they grew up with terror. These are people who were terrorised just because they held a muslim name, or were muslims. These are poeple who never got a chance to be anything else! This is again how you breed terrorists! When people feel hopeless, oppressed and have no other means than blowing themselves up, instead of accusing a beleif system i-e Islam, maybe you should stop a minute and ask yourself why? Why is it that poeple in this region do this? These people commit these desperate acts because at a point in their life, they lost control of everything, they got tired of being oppressed, they did not see an exit nor did they see a solution. I told you before, do you think Hamas would've existed if everything was fine in Palestine? Do you think these people enjoy blowing themselves up? Do you think anyone enjoys being at war? For a minute, look at the history of how terrorism start! I wish you could be born in a home where you were oppressed and saw your whole family bulldozed in front of you just because they were muslims. I wish, I wish you could be more objective…. I wish so many things, but you know what I've always been hopeful…. It is easy to blame it on Islam but if you become objective for a minute you would know that if Islam was teaching terrorism, Muslims would be blowing themselves right and left. Again, there are more than 1 billion muslims in the world! If we were violent, 1 billion angry people would be after you. I have done my best trying to relay to you what Islam was about, but if you do not want to comprehend or see any of the evidences that I present to you, there is nothing I can do. I have done my job to present to you the face of religion and Islam as I see it, as it was taught to me as people around me practice it, as I choose to live it, abide by it! I have presented to you the Islam that allows me to be a better person every day that I wake up, to strive to be good to each and every one no matter where they are from or what their beleifs systems are. I have presented to you the Islam that more than a billion people follow each day, the Islam that allows me to have a regular conversation with you or anyone else even while they are insulting my faith. I have done my job into presenting you the true faith and on the day when I meet my Lord, I will tell Him I have done my job and presented to Philippe what was taught to me! It was up to him to listen or not listen! The choice is yours now, I'am done with this topic coz I don't want to go around and around forever. Peace be to you Philippe & May Allah(God) guide you whichever way you beleive in Him!
Philippe,
How many times do I have to tell you that those things that you've cited are not islamic? women ahving acide poured on their faces, decapitation and such lol. Please, again just because some Muslim did such doesn't mean that its Islam. And that is where my defense come from. I am not in any way trying to defend Muslims, again what I am defending is Islam and what I see is in your mind, there is no separation between Islam and Muslims, and that's what the problem is. Unless you separate Muslims and Islam you will never be understand one the faith. Islam is not muslims, don't judge a book by its cover! Islam is not responsible for the actions of muslims, there are 2 separate entities
If I make a car with a manual on how to drive it, you buy the car drive wrecklessly and kill people, why should I be held responsible? Who is at fault? The car maker or the driver? Islam is perfect, Muslims are not. And the other thing is, yes you are free to beleive whatever you beleive in, if one muslim tells you you cant, then they are not following their faith. The Quran says it loud and clear: " There is no compulsion in religion. Truth stands clear from Falsefood"! God will not accept actions of people who were forced to come to Him! What He loves is when poeple come to Him from their own free will. In the times of the Prophet saw, Muslims, Christians & Jews live together in Peace. The prophet saw taught us to be respectful of every one regardless of what they beleive. If a Muslim fails to follow that , why should I be held accountable? Why Should Islam be held responsible? If women are raped and received lashes, it is not Islam, again, what you fail to do is separate Islam and Muslims! I told you before Muslims do not represent Islam, they are human beings with their good, bad and ugly! If you wanna know the true Islam go to the source. And that's where I disagree with you.
@Hijabee:
Are you saying Shariah law is not islamic? Then why do islamic governments rule by it? Aside from the acid, all other punishments I described are being handed out by courts of law. If Shariah is not islamic, then be so kind as to inform the King of the house of Saud, who sort of fancies himself as the islamic version of a pope, or the Mollahs of Iran. They say it's Allah's law.
And if that is your God's law, i'm afraid that I for one, would never live by it. (BTW, I don't live by the Book of Numbers or the Deuteronome either)
Philippe,
I never said Shariah law was not Islamic!!!!! Islamic Governments do not follow Shariah Law the way it is supposed to be followed, if they did the world would be a better place
They follow some sort of shariah law mixed with culture, misoginy and what not…..And that's why on my first post I told you when I look @ Muslim countries, I don't see them following Islamic Law or teachings. For instance, women can not drive in Saudi Arabia while there is nothing in Islam that says women shouldn't drive 
And also what you should know if for shariah to be applied somewhere there are some preconditions.Shariah law is very complex Philippe and I don't want to get into that debate coz that would take months lol.
@Hijabee:
Yet, all punishments in Sharia law originate in the Quran and the Hadiths.
And yes, it would take months to debate, but it's one of the parts I don't like of your religion. Most of it's injustices come form the application of Sharia.
Philippe,
Trust me you don't understand Sharia L:) Shariah Law is not static and every case is judged depending on the person's condition. Like I said it would take months to debate shariah law. To understand shariah you have to understand Islam first. Matter of fact, you can be a muslim all your life and never understand shariah. Debating shariah with you while all you know about it is what you read is like trying to write me a prescription for cancer while you've never been to medical school, all you did was read a book about cancer. If you understood shariah, trust me you would love it because there is no law more just than shariah law.
@Hijabee:
Not to be touchy, but one list is much longer than the other.
There has been oppression in other parts of the world. Tibet, for instance. Yet I don’t recall ever having seen a tibetan blowing himself up in Beijing, but uyghurs have… And I’m sorry, Palestine’s situation is not all Israel or the US’s fault. To hear some people, muslims are the only oppressed people on earth.
But this is not just about terrorist attacks. We don’t spray acid in women’s faces for refusing to cover up with a veil. We don’t whip them after being raped, just because they happened to be accompanied by a man who was not a member of her family when she was attacked (he was beaten up to by the rapists and condemed to receive lashes by the court, btw), as was documented in Saudi Arabia. We don’t whip people. We don’t amputate limbs. We don’t decapitate people (or at least not for centuries). We don’t stone people. We don’t have capital punishment for being gay, or for adultery or for just wanting to change your religion. These things are all in force under Shariah law. Whatever our faults, we have outgrown such treatments. Whole countries live by those laws, and more so than ever before.
It’s not that I want to insult your faith. It does have it’s good sides. But it also has it’s (very) ugly ones. And denial won’t help get rid of them.
I would also fight tooth and nail to defend your right to believe whatever you choose, could you say the same? (Or maybe you can, living in the US, but would some of your fellow muslims?) Because respect for other religions is not exactly the norm in muslim dominated countries (and I do know that for a fact because my mother currently sees a certain widower who is christian and who happens to have emigrated here from Syria and returns there every year. Suffice it to say he’s intimately familliar with the dhimma).
I respect your tenacity in defending your religion. I would’ve been disappointed if you hadn’t. It’s obvious you have faith, and, believe it or not, I respect that. It’s some of the doctrines of your religion that I criticize, not you personnally. I, on the other hand choose to live for the living and the real, not the supernatural.
Peace be with you.
@Hijabee:
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From Wikipedia:
This is your perfect law in action. With a man holding a Quran and saying matter-of-factly «this is Islam». Please don't insult my intelligence.
I can't help it if you feel that your intelligence is insulted! Im @ work hence can't visualize your videos. Iwill then answer on your comments. Are you blind, or you're doing it on purpose???? Didn;t you read < One of the difficult ones is that the punishment cannot be enforced unless there is a confession of the person, or four male eyewitnesses who each saw the act being committed.> This is the mercy of God, even though the crime is horrible, He still makes the punishment hard to implement. Who's gonna commit adultery in front of 4 people? Hence the shariah punishment for adultery can not even be applied today. You need 4 people who were in presence of the adulterous couple while they were having sex! Trust me, adulterous people if anything will go hide when they're committing their adulterous act ,no invite viewers. Hence, scholars say that it is very difficult to punish someone for adultery unless they confess it themselves! They have to come on their own and confess it and ask for the punishment. Now, who are you to feel insulted if that person goes , confess and ask for the punishment? People who live under shariah Law beleive in it, who are you to come and tell them that their beleifs is wrong, or insulting to your intelligence? Oh and shariah law doesn't apply to non-muslims even if they live in a muslim country, they are not judged according to shariah law! One other thing, do you know where punishment by stone started? It started with jewish law! Know the history! And that's the reason why I told you I can't discuss with you what you don't comprehend coz its a waste of time. Just like I wouldn't ask you to write me a prescription for Cancer JUST because you read a book about cancer! It is pointless Philippe. Maybe you think capital punishment by hanging or fatal injection, or electric chair thats done in the west is more honorable
@Hijabee: Insulting my intelligence is trying to infer that anything is beyond my understanding.
Oh I read it all right. Yet, amazingly people still manage to get convicted… Any chance some confessions were coerced? And btw, I don’t consider adultery a crime, let alone condone punishment by lashes or stoning. And unless you haven’t heard, jews have given up stoning long ago. Maybe you should give that some thought.
Be it known that one does not need to be a lawyer to understand the main concepts of British common law. So don’t presume I’m not able to understand Sharia, just because I don’t live under it.
I understand that many things that Sharia considers crimes are not crimes by my own stantards. I understand that punishments prescribed under Sharia for those crimes are cruel and barbaric for the most part. I also understand that under Sharia, a man’s testimony is worth two women’s. So much for any pretense of gender equality.
For your info, there is no capital punishment in Canada, and no I don’t condone those methods of execution either. So the «you guys do it too» argument doesn’t carry any weight with me either, but even in the US, they don’t execute people for being gay (they’d have to wipe out half of San Francisco) or for just changing their faith, which americans do an average 4 times in their lifetimes.
But here is what I really think:
You say that Islam can’t be judged by the acts of it’s followers, which I understand to mean that you excuse the acts committed by those followers as misguided even though they are committed in the name of your God. You also said that your God guides my footsteps wether I choose to believe in Him or not. Now if that is true of Islam’s followers, how can any of them be misguided? You don’t have to answer that.
What I really believe is that in human history, too many atrocities have been committed in the name of God, whatever the name you choose to call him. I also believe that Christianity and Islam both have more than their fair share of blood on their hands among those religions. I believe both Christ and your Prophet would probably be ashamed of the way their teachings were perverted. Saying the atrocities were comitted by misguided followers is no consolation for the victims.
For these reasons, I rebel against the very idea of the existence of a God. Any God.
Philippe,
What's barbaric to you might not be barbaric to me! Then again, that's a whole different story
As a woman, you're telling me about gender equity? I think I love myself way more than you will ever love me and I think that Islam gives me all my rights as a woman and is far more just towards me than any other ideology. So who are you to tell me that my gender is not respected because men's testimony is worth 2 women's. This is why I said before I can't debate with you what you dont comprehend. There is a reason for this, and I will not even waste my time trying to explain. Im kinda sleepy right now, no offense I think I would've known if my rights were taken away from me, but that again is for another day, another time 
Just curious thoug, if you don't beleive in God, what do you beleive in? Who created us? and what do you beleive happens when you die? Don't take my questions eprsonaly, Im just trying to understand your perspectives. Thanks
@Hijabee:
That's partly why followers of your religion are at odds with other cultures. We have mostly dispensed wth treatments such as stoning, amputation, décapitation and torture. And we are working at getting rid of whatever inhumane treatments we still use. We are not about to bring back things that we have determined to be inhumane centuries ago, that would be regression, not progress. No offense, but you should really wonder when some of your beliefs are met with revulsion from other people.
Certain muslims dream of a world caliphate. To us, that would be a return to the dark ages.
I don't feel any offense at your curiosity, it's only natural. Though I don't subscibe to any religion, I do subscribe to a moral philosophy called objectivism. This is a brief overview:
As a whole, I don't believe in the supernatural, no God or devil and no afterlife. I believe in pursuing my own happiness on earth, not in a reward beyond to be taken on faith. How man came to be has been sufficiently explained by evolution. I also believe force and violence should only be used in self-defense and that individual rights must be respected above all.
Allah, the most high, says: “Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm Belief”. (Toor : 35-36)
Waheed Uddeen Khan said, “The idea that life happened as a result of an accident is like saying that you could get a dictionary as the result of an accidental explosion in a printing press.” Even mathematicians say it is impossible for this universe to come into existence by chance. Christie Morrison, an American scholar, explains “If you take ten coins, and write on them the numbers from one to ten, then put them in your pocket and mix them well, then you try to take them out of your pocket in an ascending numerical order, the chance of you taking out the coin on which is written the number one on the first attempt is one in ten. The chance of you taking all ten coins in numerical order (1,2,3,4 … ) is one in ten billion.” It is ironic to me that you beleive in the theory of evolution of the dark ages while you're agains our 'teachings of the dark ages'. And the theory of evolution has been proven wrong numerously so don't tell me it explains our existence!
The ultimate test is to worship Allah without seeing him. However the signs of the existence are surrounding us and it’s a matter of us opening our minds and paying attention to them. Not only the signs are logical but evident in the nature.
Finally, this is what the Quran teaches me to say to those whose beleifs differ from mine:
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Say: Oh you who turn away
I do not worship what you worship,
nor do you worship what I worship.
And I will not worship what you worship,
Nor will you worship what I worship.
Your way is yours, and my way is mine.
So Phillipe, to you your religion and to me mine! And this closes my comments on this post. It was fun! Enjoy happily the rest of your life
Good, Hopefully I've taught you one thing or 2, and learned one thing or 2 from you
BYE 
@Hijabee:
Thanks, it was a pleasant conversation. 😉 Fare thee well.
@Hijabee:
On that we can agree.